Hosted By Tyrone Shum

Investing Property In Your Self Managed Super Fund Jolene Sukkarieh

Updated 05/08/2019

In this episode of Property Investory, we will be talking to Jolene Sukkarieh, successful property investor, wealth advisor, and mother of three. Come with us as we track her journey from her origins in Thursday Island to the Defence Force Academy, to a position with ANZ and Suncorp and then a property expert within a self-managed the super fund.

We'll learn about how her and her husband's parents' property investments inspired her to invest in a property from a young age, how her first investment at age 21 happened to be a perfect first property and what inspired her to leave her position at ANZ and Suncorp to start her own business.

So join us as we delve into Jolene Sukkarieh's everyday life, the skills she learned along the way and her property investment story that could inspire you to develop strategies that you can apply on your own journey!

u0022It just grew very, very quickly, I think because of the type of advice that we give is more holistic and around strategy, not so much product outcome. u0022 u003cbru003e -Jolene Sukkarieh

Sukkarieh is a property investor and strategist as well as a wealth advisor.

We do have quite a lot on our plates and we sort of manage that across the board with our own personal investing, and also still running a business and participating to assist clients with that specialist knowledge too.

Not only does she invest in property and advise clients on wealth, but she is also a busy mum, and tells us a little bit about what motivates her to stay on top of things.

It's a bit of a team effort and everyone sort of plays a role. And we reached a point a couple of years ago where we started sort of getting passive income through and we were faced with the decision of, “Do we start to wind back?” and sort of semi-retire. We've really enjoyed not only the property side but also we're here out of our own decision to continue to work and assist our clients. And I think that's why it's so easy because we do have a genuine passion for it. And the education side of it is something that really drives me every day to be here and talking to clients and providing whatever education that I can. So I think that's what helps to drive that for us and get out of bed every day and keep balancing and keep working as a team to get through.

On any given day, Sukkarieh not only has to look after her kids but work as a wealth advisor and property investor.

There are personal aspects to life that we juggle every day and that is the wake-up, get four kids ready for school and the usual daily struggle that I think we all embark on every morning. Then from a work perspective, we then sort of just launch into a process of talking with our clients about their current circumstances. And a lot of our clients are property investors as well, some are not, but generally, they want to make sure that they're getting the best outcome of whatever they're doing. And we just work through a process every day of looking at everything from tax to have their loans structured, capital gains issues and where they're going to ultimately end up at retirement. And that is where I spend a lot of my time, especially at the moment. Then we also, as I said, we have a portfolio ourselves, so there is some time spent in managing some of that.

We've got a mixture of commercial property and residential property, which I'll talk about a bit later but there is a little bit of time in those aspects too. And then family life at home, at nighttime as well. A little bit of a busy day, but I think we're really lucky, especially in the business, we've been going for over 10 years and our systems and procedures are pretty streamlined with really good stuff. So it does make it easy. I'm able to just focus on what I enjoyed doing. I don't have to know push paper around or do any of the admin side, which is good and I'm just all day talking strategy.

Growing up on Thursday Island up near the Torres Strait, Sukkarieh started her career in finance after university.

We had many, many years of just fishing and water skiing and a very relaxing lifestyle until I went to boarding school in Brisbane in Grade 11 and then I realized there's a whole another side to life. From that day forward certainly had a different focus and a different type of growing up. I then went and also spent some time in Aspen, in Colorado, in America, and pretty much then went down to Canberra to the Australian Defense Force Academy to do my university. And then after that, my career in finance started at the young age of about 20. So that's what I've been doing.

Sukkarieh cites desiring more exposure to the world as the reason for traveling to America and living in Colorado.

I just felt a bit adventurous and joined a wellbeing's exchange program and went over there for a bit. It was good because I learned how to snow ski, which is exciting when you've grown up on an island. I still ski, I wouldn't say I'm good, but it certainly did give me those basic skills, which was nice.

It is an amazing place and I think we've been back to other locations in the States a few times and the kids really enjoy it, as you said before, like the kids being a priority. It's a nice bonding experience that we can all have together and something everyone can get into. So it's been really good too to have that too.

She then delves into her education years growing up, her time in the Australian Defence Force Academy and how she got into finance.

I went to Thursday island. I went until the end of Year 9 and then I actually went to Aspen Year 10, then boarding school in Brisbane in Year 11. And then school on the Sunshine Coast, Matthew Flinders in Grade 12. So moved around a bit in high school. But up until the end of the year 9, we did all our growing up on Thursday island. It was different.

Then I got a scholarship to the Australian Defence Force Academy and I went down there to do economics and I did politics as well. But I don't advertise that. I did my degree with the army and went to the Royal Military College at Duntroon. And then after I had stayed some time, I then pursued my master of commerce in Financial Planning and I really love that. I really enjoyed it. So I had a chance and I got out and I started working for ANZ bank as a junior advisor when I was 20. So been doing that ever since. And I'm in my forties. So that's a while now.

Sukkarieh shares with us what it was like being in the Australian Defence Force Academy and some of the skills she learned that helped her later on in the field of property investing.

There's a lot of discipline and not a lot of sleep and it's good if you like to be physical, which at that time, no I didn't. So it's a good, a good all-round physical sort of occupation to be in and there's a lot of opportunity if you're an engineer or you want to be a pilot or something like that, you can be very satisfied. From a financial perspective, there's not that much opportunity in terms of where you work in defense unless you want to stay in Canberra, which is not something that I really wanted to do. So it can definitely be good, but you've got to be able to take orders and be disciplined and that sort of thing, I don't think could do it now. I think some of those skills that you do learn there, they become a habit, like a way of life and you structure your day and you're disciplined.

Moving from Canberra to Townsville with the Defence Force, Sukkarieh then went back to the Sunshine Coast.

That's where my family were originally from and my grandparents were still here, et cetera. So I came back here and then I applied for some positions with some banks, and I joined ANZ at Maroochydore and then I was able to implement the knowledge that I had attained on my Master of Commerce in financial planning. I was so thrilled to get that opportunity, especially at that age with no experience. That was just a great stepping stone for me.

Sukkarieh’s Property Investing Journey

Sukkarieh's first property, despite her not being aware of it at the time, was the perfect choice for a first-time investment and held her in good stead later on.

When I started with the ANZ at Maroochydore, I worked with them for about 12 months on the Sunshine Coast and then I was offered a promotional position in Brisbane. So they offered to promote me to a financial advisor from a junior financial advisor. And that was when I was around 21. So I took that offer and I moved to Brisbane and I bought a house in East Brisbane, which is just a couple of ks from the city near the Gabba. And unbeknownst to me, because to be honest, I didn't know their quality of what I was acquiring at that time, but I did like the fact that it had two-street access because I could bring my car in the front or the back and later found out that it's an LMR site, subdividable under small lot rules and had all the characteristics that an investor would want in a first property.

It was a little bit of convenience and luck that I had bought that at that time. So I actually paid $321,000 for that property. And I think that was the first property that I acquired, and that was out of the fact that I didn't want to be paying rent and I wanted to have my own asset, and I was just lucky that it met all those characteristics initially because we did go on to subdivide that later on and sort of formed a platform for us to move forward into other developments, which was exciting.

Both Sukkarieh and her husband's parents were investors in property, which paved the way for them to purchase and invest in property as they got older.

I had seen my parents and my grandparents in particular, they owned, it was close to an Acre on Alexander Headlands in what they call the Golden Triangle. And over time they sort of subdivided that and chopped it off and I saw what that had achieved for them in retirement. It continue to give them assets and capital and passive income. And my parents likewise had made some wise property acquisitions that put them in a sound financial position. So it always, I guess the education, over time, just naturally from seeing that, you've got an inherent sort of attitude then that that definitely is a positive outcome and something that is probably important to have as part of your portfolio, to have that security.

So there was definitely an influence there. My parents were definitely never prescriptive about anything. They always let us do what sort of, whatever we would like some with some guidance. And then my husband, his family was the same. They always bought large acreages in Brisbane and they still own several in really key areas now and sold them onto developers and that sort of thing. And they're still doing it now. So he had that education as well. So when we came together, we both had our first house, we're both in our early twenties. We both owned properties that had really key attributes. And then from there sort of came together and continued that together but we both had exposure to it definitely and in Australia as well. So we kind of vaguely knew the market.

Sukkarieh went from working in the banking sector at ANZ and Suncorp to other roles and eventually became a mother and a owner of a business offering advice for property investment.

I got promoted, I got offered a senior financial advisor position at the age of, I think I was like 24 or something with Suncorp. And then I moved there for a couple of years. But as you can imagine in the banking sector, it doesn't take very long to feel a bit disheartened with the style of advice that I feel like we were pigeonholed to give at that time, which is here's some products, go and sell them to me. I did some Centrelink planning, the age pension and that sort of thing, which I found benefit in because I felt like I was helping people to get ahead. But ultimately the bank developed their own products and said, you've just got to go and sell these.

And I said, that's not who I am. And I'm here to educate and advise. I'm not here to sell. So I left. So that was around mid to late two-thousands, and then I had three babies. And then I basically opened this business in 2008, 2009, so, as you say, you know, prioritizing the kids. I was a corporate role before. And then I wanted something a bit more flexible. So we created the business so that I can manage kids and work and have that balance with them. But it just grew very, very quickly, I think because of the type of advice that we give is more holistic and around strategy, not so much product outcome, and I think that's been very popular and just caused that growth. So it's been a bit of a build it and then create like, hire more staff and try to keep the systems and everything going so that we can keep that balanced. I guess that's sort of the progression from the banks to where we are now.

Sukkarieh’s Worst Investing Moment

She then tells us about one of her heart-dropping investing moments, when she and her husband was told that something couldn’t be done on their property...

One of the heart-dropping moments that I had was when we had—it was actually that original property, our first subdivision at East Brisbane—and we had architects do up drawings to submit to council and we were getting the house, as you do with those Queenslanders, we were raising the house so that we could build in underneath. And literally while the house was dangling in midair, the re-stumping company said, I think your architect has got the pitch of the roof wrong and you're well and truly over the eight and a half meters height limit and we're gonna have to raise stump down to a lower level, which won't be legal and you won't be able to build underneath. This is after we had done all the DA, the costs, we'd paid this guy like 30 grand to re-slab, re-stump, raise the house.

“I think that's why it's so easy because we do have a genuine passion for it.”u003cbru003e -Jolene Sukkarieh

That feeling that that original drawing had just led to such an accumulation of costs. And the outcome was just very frustrating. And we were very lucky at the time and this is where, as I said, my husband, he jumps in with council issues, which I really appreciate and now he manages that side of it for us as a couple. And he jumped in and we'd recently had some floods and East Brisbane is an affected area, although our property was out of cue 100. He jumped in and went to council and said, “Well, there is some relaxation with the flood zone areas and we're outside of that, but still in the same suburb.” And fortunately, they relaxed the height limit. So we were able to, we took a gamble, we said to the guy who was raising the house, we said, just stump it at legal height we're just going to have to go back in and battle. And fortunately they did relax it and we were able to keep it at legal height. And lucky we made that decision because otherwise, we would've had to go and get them to lift it up again. So I think that was probably one of the most frustrating points.

The property she just detailed was her first property and her reason for re-stumping it was to build a two-bedroom unit underneath the property and use it as an investment.

And Matt had a property out at Macrovacpowlack road, which was sort of, that had the potential to be rezoned. So someone was willing to offer a lot of money.

So he sold that. So we had our first house in East Brisbane paid off when we were about 22 as a couple. And then we said, “Well, we can now subdivide this under small lot rules cause it's was the two straight access LMR site that I'd acquired as a principal place of residence. So we said we can subdivide it under the small lot rules and we can get some capital gains tax relief because half of it is our principal place of residence. So we were basically building a house in the backyard. We were going to retain one as an investment, continue to live in the other one. That was our plan. So we went to council and then the one that we were living we wanted to raise and build in underneath.

This was to have a two-bedroom unit underneath that generated the passive income as well because it's just the two of us, and we were in our twenties, so we said why not? Let's just maximize the income that we get out of here and maximize our opportunity. So we did a DA subdivision, two lot, two houses, multi-unit developmentally, we ended up submitting and then so with the existing house that was a 1910 Queenslander. So we wanted to raise that and that's why the re-stumping guys were there, so they were there to increase it to legal height under so we could build our two-bedroom unit underneath for that passive income.

For those of us unaware of re-stumping practices for properties in Queensland, Sukkarieh gives us some insight into how it works.

I can't remember what it was at the time for legal height under, I think it was 1.7m.

It took the peak of the house up to 8.5, which was the legal height limit for the street, for the front of the house. But because the architect had the pitch wrong, the pitch of the house, actually the peak of the house actually was 8.8 so when the bottom was legal height, the top of the roof was too high for legal height limit for the street.

This type of change would allow them to add additional income on the property, though it would have be done professionally to ensure it meets certain standards.

In Queensland, in Brisbane, a lot of the houses are Queenslanders and Queenslanders are naturally stumped. So most Queenslanders are actually on stumps already. And I think that's why it's easy. They just come in sort of like with a massive type of forklift scenario and they just lift the house up and then they just re-stamp it and they slab it. So you need to have the height of the bottom level at a certain height limit, which I think is 1.7 but I have to go and double-check that was a while ago that one, to be able to legally build it in underneath. So, sometimes in Queensland, I'm sure everywhere, you have some areas under the houses where people live. But if they're not a legal height limit, they can't be approved. So they're not approved unless they're at a certain height.

When people are buying the property, that comes up on the building search and they say, well that's not legal height. And people say, well, I might have to remove that. The council would come and tell me to remove it so I'm not paying you extra for the two-bedroom unit underneath because it's not even legal.

There's so many little intricacies I didn't realize. It's fascinating and obviously you came out successful at the end of it.

Once we had developed that eventually, we kept it for a while and then we found some other projects that we wanted to sink our money into and we moved back to the Sunshine Coast so we no longer needed that principal place of residence. We went and did a development at Everden Hills and Matt might talk more about that in his session.

He pretty much did that himself. And then we acquired a block Matt and I have always been the type of people where we'll sacrifice where we live to make money. So we had four kids and we moved back to the Sunshine Coast, and we bought a building that had two three-bedroom units in it, and we lived in one of the three-bedroom units and rented the other one out so we had passive income, and then we built in a big four-bedroom unit underneath for even more passive income. So we were living for free obviously in that property because of all the rent that we had coming in and we felt it was better to go and do that development than keep our money at East Brisbane at that time. We liquidated and moved on. One thing we've always said is, don't get sentimentally attached to the properties. It's a numbers game and whatever gives us the best results over time is what we want to do.

Making A Cash Flow Heavy Model Work

Sukkarieh shares with us the current properties she has in her portfolio, which includes a number of different properties.

Right now we've got a principal place of residence obviously, but that's a sizable asset for us. And then we've got a property at Mooloolaba and it's actually a block of units. So there's a four-bedroom and two three-bedroom units in that, we'd built the four-bedroom in downstairs. And then we've got two commercial properties in addition to that at the moment as well.

For Sukkarieh, her favourite moment over the course of her property journey was achieving financial independence, to the point where she didn't necessarily have to work as much in order to pay for her living costs.

My favorite moment with the investment side, so not obviously having kids and getting married, but my favourite moment with the property side is when we had paid off our... because our house now is obviously a much bigger asset, we don't live in three-bedroom unit anymore, we have our house paid off and our units up at Woolabah and we started receiving that significant passive income coming through. And we felt like, okay, well this is what we've been working towards. This is the moment that I think a lot of people really dream of is, now we're in a position where, well, we don't necessarily have to work, we don't have to work as much. We can have more balance and start to step back and all those sort of things. It is a very tangible feeling when that happens because you do feel free. Of course we both still just continued work. I don't know what's wrong with us, whatever, we're young as well. And I don't think—we do a lot of travel now—but I don't think I'm semi retirement's not really our immediate goal. We're really enjoying what we're doing. But that moment was definitely great and it's allowed us to go and acquire other assets and use that income now to put towards those two, to reduce the debt on those. So I think that's definitely my favorite moment with our investing.

Sukkarieh went for a cashflow heavy model to accumulate wealth and properties and pay off debt rather than just letting capital growth do all the work.

I think when we started out, we were a bit gung-ho development and then based on the amount of time that that takes and what's involved with negotiating and that sort of thing...after we did the East Brisbane and Everden Hills developments, we then maneuvered towards that block of units that I mentioned and that was much easier because the structure was already there. And we just enhanced it and really enhanced the cashflow. And then we actually rented that out per room from about 2009 to about 2017 and you know, the cash flow return was about 12%. So we went for cashflow heavy model to help us get ahead and really make sure that our assets are contributing. So we've never bought an asset where we've got to subsidize it. It's like a poor cousin and we've got to give it $1,000 a month.

We've never done that. So from that moment onwards because we then had a really good cash flow from that property and we worked closely with a few people in the industry, and Helen will appreciate when I say our next asset that we acquired was probably a bit more high risk in the sense that it was a commercial property that was vacant. So we got it extremely under market value and it's tenanted out now and it's almost double than... and that's also been our strategy for our next commercial property that was acquired as well. So we took a different tact after the first few developments because we wanted our assets to be just very cash flow enhanced and not have to contribute towards those and less time, less money and more contribution back for us. So that's how our strategy has evolved over time.

I wouldn't say when we were 22 did we sit down and say we're going to go from developments to building units to buying vacant commercial properties. It's something that has just naturally evolved, I think, as we've matured and realized where you can get the best bang for buck out of some of these acquisitions. And I wouldn't say that we would rule out developments but we certainly...our feasibilities are pretty strong on those now because we understand the time that's required to do them. So, that in combination with making some sacrifice does, as I said, around like we were renting rooms out, we didn't have our own space as a family really until I'm about five or six years ago. So, it was making sacrifices and being really disciplined with money, making sure that we're setting money aside and that we're paying debts off and accumulating effective assets in the right areas. And that was structuring things properly to tax. That's always been something really important to us. So we're not giving away more than we have to. The combination of that is something that we've always had from day one. That's been our approach and our strategy. Um, and it's just evolved to include different assets over time.

Self Managed Super Fund

In regards to tax, Sukkarieh sheds some light on whether accountants or financial planners are equipped to give advice in that area.

That's a grey area because some financial advisors don't advise on tax strategies. And some accountants don't advise on broader tax strategies or self-managed super funds. So what I would say is it's just doing the research to ask a few questions, whether they're an accountant or an advisor, around are you able to advise me on the big picture, including myself, my trust, my companies, my superannuation, my cashflow, my objectives. And then the ultimate outcomes for capital gains tax. That's really what should be asked. Because I even had a client and even this week who, they've got a financial advisor, an accountant who does personal and an accountant who does self-managed the super fund and then the loan guy at the bank. And so they're working with four advisors. And I said, your advice has been very disjointed.

Like everything is very weighted towards...and she owns several properties in her own name and has cash in super and she's retired. So none of it really made any sense. And I think you want someone who can pull it all together and take the big picture. They know the general strategies across all and really weight up the different outcomes for you. It could be an accountant, it could be a financial advisor, but you've just got to ask those questions so that you get the right person, the right fit, because some financial advisors are more product-focused and they might only invest in certain products and not have that broad-brush approach. And then some accountants might not even be qualified in superannuation. So that's never going to be part of the equation for example. Just asking that question, making sure that they are able to give you that broad advice is important.

Jolene Sukkarieh’s Property Investing Mindset

Having passive income coming in is very important for Sukkarieh as it gives her the financial independence and freedom she needs, provides a future for her family and is the reason why she has accumulated her properties.

What we're currently doing with the properties is we've got a commercial property that's rented it out and that's got a very good yield based on what we paid for it. And we've got the units that are rented out. So a lot of that now is sort of positive cash flow and passive income. And so we've just gone and acquired another commercial asset that's currently vacant. And we did take out debt for that.

So we're using now the other passive income, we'll start paying that off. That's a new asset that other commercial property, we're just about to settle on that. So why we're doing that is because we want to achieve a passive income of about 350 but still not having to use our principal place of residence, which is a bulky asset, to generate income and also not relying on our super because we'd like further options earlier in life. So at the moment, most of our calculations and why we're doing that is around trying to get more and more passive income. And the reason that we've got three assets as opposed to one is because I'm a little bit conservative in nature and I like to have multiple tenants and multiple income sources because I feel like for us to rely on like one tenet of a really massive assets, for me, would be a little bit of risk because if we're relying on that to provide us our passive income and then we do shut up shop, when we're 50 or whatever, then if that vacates then you're not going to have that consistency.

So we're trying to build it whilst having it tax effective, protected as you said, and consistent in nature so that we feel comfortable with where we're sitting when we do ultimately just rely on that revenue to provide us with our living costs. So right now we're reinvesting it all back in because what's motivating us is that we're continuing to accrue assets and we're doing that so we can create a bit of a future for us and the kids and have that flexibility without ever having to realize our principal place of residence.

It sounds like your principal place of residence is already fully paid off, two of the properties are also unencumbered, you wouldn't have any debt on it. And the last property you purchased, commercial, has a loan on it as well. So a really, really nice comfortable financial position with these properties because you own three of the four that you've got at this point in time.

The first commercial one there is a tiny bit of debt left on that. But yeah, that will be paid off quite soon, but yeah, that's right. So it's just really, what we're trying to do now is accumulate as rapidly as possible in terms of the assets and passive income that we've got.

Sukkarieh has been part of education groups with property education in cities all over Australia and has found great value in the information and counseling they have provided.

I have learned much through those groups, like I learned from everyone on a daily basis. It's amazing how much knowledge just passes through those groups and what you've got access to and the variation in speakers that they get. And it's a constant evolution as well. So I think my main training ground and even now just keeping up with everything that changes as we go. Being part of those networks has given me a lot of education and I think access to the right professionals to, because I always put my hand up even if I think I know the answer, I double check, you know? And I think that there's so much value in that advice that we get, I still go and talk to my mentor and I bounce everything off him, you know, and I think that that network has really been a key, is really been a big key for us in terms of being educated about things. Everything from tax right through to feasibility or whatever it is.

That is so, so good because yeah, it's a team. You really need a team around you to be able to get the expert advice otherwise you can't do everything yourself. That sounds amazing. It sounds like the resources and mentors have been your group and your team and the education pieces that you've been part of, which is phenomenal.

And I think you know some of them and you know what they're like, aren't they? They're just very expert in their fields and the amount of knowledge and because everyone is so niche, they just stay up with it, so relevant for their individual fields. So I think anyone that tries to go it alone, I would really question that because even as professionals who are in it all the time we're still learning and we're still bouncing off each other to get the best outcomes.

Education Around A Self Managed Super Fund

She then shares with us about a book she has written on self managed superannuation which she gives to her clients to increase their knowledge base.

It's just the ins and outs, how it's structured, what the possibilities are with the superannuation. So  a lot of people talk about The Barefoot Investor, which, look, there are some good aspects to reading books like that because you are getting education, but if you want to act off that advice without getting it personalized to yourself, then you're going to have problems. So I think that mine branches off just into the superannuation space and just sort of goes through all the nitty-gritty detail all around how is superannuation structured, what are the tax rates and how can we invest in there and just all the tips and traps I guess.

What's the name of the book?

Just “Self Managed Superannuation” by Jolene Sukkarieh and it's branded with our company. So yeah, it's just a bit of an e-book and we just give it to all of our clients for an education process.

Sukkarieh tells us about a moment when she received great advice which held her in good stead on her property journey.

I think the best advice that had, the most impact for me was actually back with that first investment that we did. As I said, I was 22 and we went and saw an accountant at the time, and they said, if you structure it like this, you're going to pay about 200,000 in tax. If you structure it like this, you'll pay about 15 grand. And you know, when you're 22 and you're doing your first development and you're really trying to set a financial foundation, that had a huge impact on the outcome of that for us. So once again, that's another moment that I'm grateful for and I'm grateful that I got corrected advice as well and that it had such a positive impacton us starting out as a family as investors. I think that was a moment where I've definitely received some great advice.

She then cites staying on top of things as one of the key factors that has contributed to her success.

I think that we get compliments often around our efficiency and timeliness. And I think I have a habit of, every morning I wake up, I check and get back to emails and every night I will not go to bed until my inbox is cleared, I've got back to everyone, even phone calls ever saved that day, if I get the message late, I'll shoot a text, I just leave nothing unturned until I go to bed. And I think doing that every single day just means that things don't accumulate, people's expectations are met and that you stay on top of things as well. So even for our own stress management, not going to bed with things hanging over your head. I believe that contributes to us being efficient, like in life as well as business.

If Sukkarieh could give herself some advice ten years ago, this is what she would have said...

I do sort of function all the time. Like I don't, I unless like I physically leave. Even now, it's why we take jumping holidays and we go overseas. Because unless I physically leave, I don't give myself any downtime. So I think I would just say to myself, you've got the foundation, your processes automated, you're saving, just relax. I think we can sometimes get a bit wound up with it. Like what if I don't achieve and what if I don't end...? And I think that if you set the process in motion, if you've planned it out and you've got a process that's set in motion, just to allow yourself to live as well and have some balance and, and don't panic about it because everything works in cycles and opportunities come up on a daily basis. And I think when you're young you feel like, well that opportunity's the only one I'm ever going to get, I've got to buy that property and you pay too much or whatever. Everyone's sort of tends to feel like that when they're young. But as you get older, you just feel like, you know what? There's like five opportunities a day, be selective, take your time and don't panic. That's what I would say.

When asked what she would look forward to most in her property journey, Sukkarieh replies she will definitely enjoy reaping the rewards of all her hard work and effort.

I think it's just finally seeing the accumulation that's not from me having to put money into it. It's just finally just seeing something working for you and helping you get ahead. It's almost like having a third person in the marriage. Don't tell Matt I said that. It's like we've got another person that's earning an income. And I think that's an exciting phase to be in now because where we direct that and just watching that accumulate, it's effortless and I just really enjoy seeing it. So that is exciting me, that, you know, we finally, we'll get some benefits from that, after all the hard work and sacrifice.

When it comes to whether how much of her success she thinks is due to skill, intelligence and work and how much of it is because of luck, Sukkarieh shares the following..

I think that there are things that you need to be grateful for that could have gone either way. And definitely that has happened for me, like with my first job. And those sorts of things with the council saying yes instead of no, I mean they're all things that I consider good fortune. But I also think that building on good fortune, you need to have planning and you need to have hard work and you need to have sacrificed to have the result that you get.

For those who would like to find out more about Jolene Sukkarieh, what she does and to reach out to her, this is how you can contact her.

I'm contactable on 0416473446 and my email is [email protected]. My Financial Group is a holistic financial services. So we have a tax accountant, self managed super fund accountants and specialists. We've got wealth advisors, we've got loan brokers, and we've also got insurance brokers. So most of our clients are busy people and they like to be able to just do everything in one convenient location. We do work with other professionals as well, so we're not just isolated to people who need us for everything. Feel free to reach out. Really important to me and as I mentioned, my passion at the start, like I had somebody say to me yesterday, you know, why don't you charge for your first consultation and doing those cash flows?

So one of my clients offering me advice on that I could offer under the bonnet checks for $500 or charge your fee and donate it to charity. And I think something that really drives me is education. And in this country, I feel like we're not financially stable enough when we retire. We don't have enough to be comfortable. And the more people that we can get out and touch early in the piece and educate around that and good habits and how do we improve on that? That's really what drives me every day. And that's why we do those first two meetings at no cost. We sit down, we analyze your situation, we have a look at why you're heading for retirement. We go through all of that. And that's because we do want that information to get out there regardless of whether or not you become a client of ours. That drives us, we do lecturing down at the universities at Griffith and we volunteer our time full of those sorts of things. We do pro bono aged care work for people going into aged care facilities because that's very stressful and it's a minefield of information. A very stressful time. The main thing that drives us is that its education, so don't be afraid to reach out and ask questions because that's what we love and that's why we're still working.

This episode was produced by Annie Gao with narrations and interviews conducted by Tyrone Shum.

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