Rodney Holder

How to Build A Multimillion Portfolio: Capital Venture Investment

Rodney Holder has is a man of many passions, with property venture, business, capital growth, and music have all played a significant part in his life and career. Originally from Canberra, Holder started in a band as a drummer as a teenager and saved enough money to purchase his first property in his 20’s.

Tune in to this episode of Property Investory to learn about how this ex-drummer started his property investment journey, the high’s and low’s of his journey so far, and where he plans to go next.

“I didn’t have to sort of wait for no capital growth, it just basically landed on my, on my doorstep. ”
-Rodney Holder

Speaking with Rodney Holder he shares currently what is happening in his life.

I’m in between jobs so that’s interesting, but I am a very passionate property investor. I’m an ex-heavy metal drummer of a band that I was in for 20 odd years, which I was lucky enough to tour the world, and play with all my idols and do all that kind of really cool stuff. And then off the back of that, I was a music business lecturer teaching music business studies, and I had a music business podcast – well, I’ve got a music business podcast, and yeah. Music has been my life but all along doing all of that with my music stuff, was my property investing which is something, now that I guess I’ve grown up a little bit and the sort of music taking the second place in my life and property has overtaken so it’s on with the property journey.

A normal day for Holder starts with jujitsu before taking his children to school.

At the moment as I said I’m unemployed so it’s been great. I’ve been getting up nice and early and doing jujitsu classes and then taking my kids to school which has been amazing because I’ve got two little kids and so one’’s in kindergarten and one’s in prep, so I get to make their lunches and do that and then my day is usually – I’m researching about property or I’m watching podcasts and interviews or I’m doing something you know, I’m working on a number of projects at once. At the moment I’m also doing an online course to try and bring some more money in with a Canadian rock star that I did an online course with – a guy named Devin Townsend so. And then I’ll go and pick up my kids and cook dinner and watch the telly with my wife and Renton retreat, it’s been – it’s quite good at the moment not having the responsibility of having to go to work.

He also explains how important being a stay-at-home dad is.

It is such an important age and I feel very lucky that you know, not many dads get to do what I do and be there for their kids at those important time. So right now I’m just savoring all of it.

At 17, Holder found his passion while subbing in as a drummer for a heavy metal band.

I grew up in Canberra, which a lot of people thought was very sort of boring and just sort of the land of roundabouts and porn, but Canberra actually had a really vibrant and thumping music scene back in the late 80s, early 90s and I was lucky enough to be a part of that. I joined the heavy metal band called Alchemists back in 1988 and we basically stayed together till about 2010 and off the back of that band you know, we grew this great scene along with a lot of other bands and we were very very dedicated and motivated and we worked very hard and we got signed to a couple of different record labels and we did a lot of touring and like I said, I got to tour with all my idols and made a lot of my own – a lot at the rock stars, I grew up with their posters on my walls and we got to tour the world and got that little sort of taste of being a bit of a rock star I suppose it was. It was a lot of fun and I very much loved it and it also really prepared me, I think, for you know, for business life and property investing life because you know the music industry is so so hard to crack so it made you very resourceful. So yeah, that’s kind of my story and music was my life and playing the drums was my life and playing extreme heavy metal; I loved it.

Gosh, when did you start to play the drums?

It’s a funny story you know, because by the age of 17 I still hadn’t – I wasn’t really even a musician and I went to a party one day and there was a really bad band playing – a bad heavy metal band and the drummer, he had snuck off to have a bit of nookie with his girlfriend, and the band said “hey mate, do you want to jump in on the drums?”. So I just sort of picked up the sticks and I just had a knack for it. So it is. And so they ended up sacking that guy and they said “well, do you want to be the drummer?” and I loved it. So I started when i was 17 and by the time I was 19, I was pretty good and that was my story. I was addicted to it.

That’s amazing. So pretty much at the end, or towards the end of high school – it would be that age before going into either tertiary studies or going out to work, that’s when you actually picked up the drums and got into that scene, is that right.

Yes pretty much right, yeah. I was actually a year younger than all my friends so I finished – I actually finished Year 12 when I was – just turned 17. So I had a year of up on all my mates and yeah that was the time yeah. I was 17 when I started playing the drums and like I said, I was never one of those drummer drummers who wanted to be the best drummer, but I did want to be the best heavy metal band – in the best heavy metal band I could be In, so I practiced really hard and I was lucky enough to find a bunch of guys that had the same vision, and yeah, we pretty much went for it for a good 15-20 years before we sort of started to have kids and slow down and realise, you know it’s probably time to maybe grow up a little bit.

It wasn’t all fun and games though. Holder had to work part-time jobs on the side to be able to pay the bills.

I was working at the Hyatt Hotel, and I worked there until they told me I had to cut my hair and I thought ‘well, I’m not going to do that’. How can I be an icon to being a heavy metal band with short hair which is ironic because people who don’t know me, I’ve had a shaved bald head for the last 20 years? But yeah, I just did odd jobs because the band came first, so it was pretty much whatever job I could take, I would take, and then, in the end, I actually ended up managing a pub, the good old Kingston hotel, some listeners might know that in Kingston in Canberra, and the boss was really great because when I said “okay well I need the next six weeks off to go on tour”, he was like “okay no worries” and then when I got back, you know, I had a job to come to so yeah. All the guys pretty much had to quit jobs at various times so that we could feed our heavy metal addiction.

He completed a Bachelor of Communications and Media in university while drumming away with his band.

My dad is a hardass, well he was, he’s retired now but he was a hardass copper and he’s like “mate, you can’t be playing the drums all day and doing nothing. This is not on.” So I thought well if I go to uni that’ll buy me some time before the band becomes famous. I went and studied Communication and Media and so that was great. I really enjoyed doing that degree and to be honest, though it was really just a front so that I could not have to go and get a full-time job and I could go off and play with the band. But yes I came out of that and then as a result of doing my degree, I was actually lucky enough – in Canberra, there was a music business college started up at Tafe and I landed the job as the music business coordinator because I had the, I guess the academic piece of paper, but also you know I was literally that guy I was the guy in the band that was booking all the shows I was negotiating the record deals. We also ran a metal festival, so we ran the largest heavy metal festival in Australia at that time, a charity concert called metal for the brain. And so I was doing all of these great things and that was my first real job, so I was actually getting paid like a serious salary and I felt like one of the luckiest guys in the world because I was playing in my band, I was getting paid to teach other people about copyright and contracts and negotiations and marketing and all this stuff that I was doing and I was earning some really good coin, which I guess led into my first property investment.

That’s amazing. That’s the thing, you’re doing something that you’re passionate about, you tied both together. One is work but that you do at the Tafe and one where you’re actually playing in the band. It’s like the perfect dream positions that you’ve got there and that’s amazing.

Yeah I was very very lucky, Tyrone. But I think you know, your luck is if you work hard then those opportunities come round so that you can jump on those lucky opportunities. I think that’s what luck is.

Holder ventured down the property path with a push from his father.

It brings back fond memories because I’d saved up 10000 bucks and I thought well, ‘what am I going to do?’. And I actually thought right, I’m going to go overseas and I’m going to have you know, do the big thing without the band. I did a lot of travel with the band but, I thought I was going to go over and do the touristy thing and I actually sat down with my dad one day and he just said to me, he said “maybe you should go overseas and blow your ten grand, that’s fine. You’ll have the experience but when you come back, you’ll have nothing to come back to”. But he said ‘“by the way,” I was just about to turn 30 too, so I think there was a psychological thing going on in my brain at this stage in my life, and my dad sort of said “but if you buy a house, you can always save that money again and then when you come back, you’ve got your house to come back to.”

And my dad’s a pretty wise guy, and I thought you know what, that makes a lot of sense. So I started looking to buy a house. I had enough money that I’d saved up because I was a bachelor, I didn’t have any kids so my only real expenses was myself, and I was earning a good wage. And yeah, my dad had a friend who was a property investor and also a real estate agent and he sort of said – I was looking at these you know brand new units and he said, “no you should buy yourself a nice big old house, in your name, in the suburbs of Canberra, on a big block of land.” and I ended up finding one that needed a complete renovation. It was really rundown all thing in the suburbs of Higgens on a really big block and because I was studying negotiations and teaching that as a part of my teaching, I thought I’d try out a few of the techniques that I’d learnt and I was able to really negotiate and get a great deal on my very first property, which is what kind of set me up and it also showed me that you know, no offense to real estate agents but the real estate agent was really only in it for himself. He didn’t really worry too much about the defender and I was able to get this great bargain of a house even though it was completely unrenovated. I thought well, that’s cool. I’ll be able to have big sort of heavy metal parties and If someone puts their foot through the wall or you know, whatever, it doesn’t really matter and that’s actually what I did. I guess it became a bit of a party house and I’ve still got that house today and I can trace every single thing that I’ve been able to do almost financially to this day, comes out of that one property so I guess it shows the importance of a little bit of luck going right but also getting that first property right in your journey.

Yeah, that would be a very sentimental property too, because of your band played there, it brings back a lot of good memories too.

Oh my God, I mean you can the neighbors will attest some of the parties that happened back there in the early 2000s were pretty crazy. We had a – we had a spa bath out the back and yeah, it was lots of fun but yeah.

It sounds like a perfect perfect place to hang out when Rodney has a party.

It was pretty good times, no doubt.

Holder shares with us when he purchased his first property investment.

I settled on that property in October 2000 and I remember it because I can remember moving in and going I was really really scared. I remember thinking ‘holy crap, I bought a house. How am I going to afford these repayments, you know. And I thought well what I’ll do is – and this has been another I guess, key to my ability to continue to invest in that I got my best buddies in and I said “hey guys, do you want to come and live with me and do the group thing”. And so it was a two-story house, I lived upstairs and they lived downstairs and they both gave me 100 bucks a week. And I think yes, I was getting like 800 bucks a month rent from my buddies and I think the mortgage was a thousand bucks a month.

That’s the best situation room.

Yeah. And also when I went on tour to play you know they were there to look after my dog and make sure no one broke into the house and keep the lights on and all of those things worked out really really good. So yeah, I gave my buddy somewhere to stay and we create this great party house. But at the same time, I had this really ugly duckling asset which I only actually renovated at the beginning of last year. So, it’s stayed ugly for about 18 years.

To be honest if there’s nothing wrong with it, why fix it? Unless you need to you know, if you’re going to add value to it. There’s no reason why because it’s generating, obviously, good income for you. So usually those ones that people don’t bother touching. It’s funny, I see we mention that because there’s a lot of places I’ve been around in Sydney and you know, how a lot of doctors like to buy houses to run their clinics or medical centers out and you think you know, it’s probably one of the cheaper options because then you don’t have to go and buy a block of land and build a brand new clinic and stuff like that. And a lot of times they just fit it out with the bare minimum to you know, get the clients in there and you just think wow, it’s a sufficient enough place, but there could be a better investment to put more money into making it look better for the clientele coming through. But the doctors don’t really care, they just want to get their clients in there and that’s it. It reminds me of those kind of things that, if it’s not broken, why fix it.

Yeah well, what ended up happening was that I moved to Brisbane and my buddies kind of said well we’ll continue renting. It was a different set of buddies but I had some buddies, and they moved in and they basically lived in my unrenovated house for cheap rent for about 14 years. So yeah, I was dealing you know the mortgage repaid, plus by this stage, the rent had gone up to give me a little bit of extra positive cash flow and it also enabled me to pay all the rates and all those other hot water bill that went occasionally, a hot water system etc. but yeah you know, they were happy because they were living in cheap accommodation and I had someone paying off my asset for me. It was great.

It wasn’t always smooth sailing. Holder faced some hardships while renting out his property.

If I was to talk about probably the lowest, the lowest time, it’s going back to that first house and last year, one of my said friends that I was telling you about that had rented out the house for so long, he just stopped paying the rent. And it was like this is kind of strange because this guy had been paying the rent every fortnight for like I said 14 odd years. And when I sort of rang up there was an excuse and It was late and then you know, it happened again and happened again and in the end, I had to sort of…

It was you know, I had to keep my buddy out of the House essentially. I had to say look you’ve got to leave a man because this is not going – we can’t do this any longer. And I found out that he had lost his job and he was suffering from depression and all this other stuff. So there was a real kind of like – it was hard for me to kick out him as my tenant because he was also my mate, particularly at a time when he was going through a hard period, but you know, I had to put my business hat on and say well, I can’t and I refuse to be just paying the mortgage while you’re living there rent-free so, that wasn’t the greatest thing. And then of course, because he’d lived there as a party house for 14 years in this rented house it was completely unrenovated that was when I said okay well now I have to do the complete renovation so… but you know, to answer your question, yeah like I said, I’ve been really really lucky and that’s probably the worst thing that’s happened to me. I just I don’t know maybe – I don’t know, someone’s looking out for me or not I mean I’m not really religious or anything but touch wood, I haven’t had it too bad.

Holder’s aha moment came when he bought that first property and it paved the way for his future investments.

If I go back to this first house in Higgens that I’m telling you about then I bought that in, like I said, October 2000 and lived in that with my buddies for a couple of years and I can’t remember but there was that big property boom of about 2003-2004 and I realised that the house that I actually paid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars for this home in Canberra, and within the space of about 18 months it was valued at 350. And I remember thinking holy shit, this is why people get into the property. This is, this is amazing.

Like I didn’t have to sort of wait for no capital growth. It just basically landed on my, on my doorstep. And so right at the time of leaving Brisbane – ah sorry leaving Canberra to come to Brisbane, I didn’t actually have a job to come to. I had left this great job and moved to Brisbane and I was actually doing it pretty hard financially myself and my bank manager said “well, you’ve got to have equity in your property now, what you can do is you could just get a line of credit and that’ll kind of solve all your problems” and so I said “you can do that?” And they were like “Yeah.” So, here I was, in Brisbane, with no job and no money and still touring with my band and had a nice pile of cash that I could access to continue to fund my lifestyle till I could get myself back on my feet. So I guess those two things happening was where I went “Wow, property can go up in value” and at it has for me quite significantly which is amazing. And secondly, I can also access that money and you know, I know it’s smarter to probably invest with it, but at that time my own personal circumstances actually enabled me to survive. So I was able to pay all my bills and my debts and fund my, again my addiction to heavy metal, and live without getting a proper job for quite a while until I was able to land a good job in Brisbane.

However, Holder knew that he couldn’t afford to go on like this and had to get a job.

I was working part-time when I got to Brisbane and just like crappy jobs. I think I had a job – I was doing furniture removing which was a quite a culture shock, moving furniture in the Brisbane sun.

And also, working in a bottle shop so when I wasn’t touring, I was actually working but I was on a real sort of like low wage. And so when it came time for you know, the rates or the insurance or by this stage, I bought more properties by the way, so I was getting you to know, a body corporate and seeking fund. It was – It enabled me to tap into that equity and basically fund the shortfall of funds that I had and that probably lasted me – that money, for two years.

That’s really good.

When I look at how much the property had grown in value it was really you know, the bank manager was sort of saying to me “well, there is more here to come. You can come and get it if you want.” It’s a lot different now. I was aware of not just sort of like ploughing in and using my equity but it certainly did help me so that that is a part of my story.

Inspired by his grandfather’s dying words, Holder moved to Brisbane to be with the girl he was most fond of.

When you were touring here, I always loved Brisbane. Brisbane was just such a stark contrast to Canberra, particularly in the winter and I’d lived all my life in Canberra and it was actually my grandfather, he was on his deathbed and he sort of said to me “you know, your life goes so quick that you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do.” And the only thing holding me back in Canberra was my band and I met a girl I was very fond of and she lived in Brisbane and I just thought you know what, I’m just going to chuck it all in; I’m just going to do it. And so it was just one of those things where I threw in this great job, I threw in – I thought I was throwing in the band, but I was actually able to talk them into allowing me to stay in the band whilst they lived in Canberra and I lived in Brisbane. Obviously it made rehearsals harder, but we kept it together and yeah, that’s why I moved up here and I really love Brisbane. I’ve been told by my next-door neighbor that I’m not allowed to say I’m a Brisbane guy till I’ve lived here for 20 years. Sixteen years; I’m nearly, nearly a Queenslander.

I don’t know if that one is true you know, you’ve been living there for 16 years, I have no problem calling a Queenslander.

Yeah, and when I go back to Canberra, it seems like an alien place now. It’s so different from when I was there but…

So when was the last time you went back to Canberra?

Well, it was last year to do that renovation on that first house. I went down and I rolled up my sleeves. There was, if you can imagine, this completely filthy, ugly house – here’s a good story, I rang up a couple of real estate agents and I said “Can you give me a valuation on this property?” because I knew that the Canberra market was going up and they said “look, in the state it’s in, you might be lucky to get maybe $470-$480 for the property” because like I said, it’s a pretty big property. It’s got two-story and it’s about three bedrooms at the time, I added a fourth bedroom. And then after the renovation, I spent about 80K on the Reno and then the bank Val came in at $700 so I was wrapped.

I don’t want to have to work all my life and I like the idea of passive income and being able to have people pay me to live in my property so that I don’t have to go and do a job that I don’t necessarily want to work for.

Getting The Most Out of Buy and Hold Investments: Gaining Growth in Capital Venture

I probably purchased about maybe nine.

Since then I have sold some. So I’ll give you a quick rundown what I did when I knew I was going to leave my nice cushy corporate high paying job in Canberra. I thought to myself I guess it shows I’m a bit of a risk-taker. I said well I’m going to get another loan to buy a house in Brisbane or a property in Brisbane because I know I’m not going to have a chance to get that way if I don’t have the job behind me so I was looking at properties and I found one in the suburb of Hawthorn which is a really nice suburb in Brisbane and I didn’t have the money. I guess it didn’t have the guts to do it by myself so I convinced one of my mates I said I’m going to move to Brisbane I’m going to buy this unit do you want to go halves with me and my thinking was it was well you know I’ll have someone to share all of the expenses with and if it all turns pear-shaped you’ll be able to help me with the bills. And so he said Yeah. And he had a nice job as well so yeah we went halves in a unit in Hawthorn and I lived in that for about a year before I moved out and turned that into an investment property and then me and the same mate we bought a week or 20 acres up a tin can buy just a big block of land we have no idea what we’re doing by the way in terms of strategy. About I knew I loved property and I thought I might want to live on this block land one day we win hearts and a big block of land and a half. And after a while, he came back to me and he said ah I want to buy you out of both the unit and the block of land and by this stage both the block of land and the unit had gone up in value quite significantly because there’d been a property boom in Brisbane.

Holder ended up selling his share of both properties to his friend and used the money to fund his next purchases.

I was able to make a good amount of money by selling my share to him on both the land and the unit and then that enabled me then to go and buy more property so I bought another house in Manly in Brisbane which is where I still live today and stuck a granny flat in the back of that which gives me another great income. And then I bought another house with another buddy in Manly and I bought another house with another buddy in lotor and then my partner she bought a year in Redcliffe. So that was kind of like a thing I don’t think I’ve left any out but that was kind of the story so we were able to kind of just on this and again, by the way, I didn’t have a great job at this stage I was still touring and I was able to do this just with my part-time job. I built up the equity and I was I was determined to buy more property because to me I thought it was going to be the key to my career. My retirement I guess what I was thinking Yeah.

He continued to invest with friends as his lifestyle made it difficult to receive a loan on his own, and this way also gave him peace of mind for future expenses.

What I found was that when I first sold the property in Hawthorn and the block of land and I was then cashed up I was able to then buy a house by myself. But then when I went back to the bank and tried to get some more money to buy more property.

It was a serviceability issue because I wasn’t earning enough money and I had so much debt and so it was a way of getting around that. So I was I was living with my a good mate of mine and he had a job and I said well let’s see if we can do this together. And I think also second really second to not just the serviceability but it was also the security of having my good mate there. So when the right came in for instance if it had been a tight months it didn’t have to sort of where that whole expense yourself you’re going halves in the race you go halves in the insurance you’re going halves in the in all of the bills and we were purchasing properties that were dual living. So it was very comfortable for us to live in and do a little bit of a renovation generally in Queensland you know I’d be living upstairs he’d be living downstairs. And then yeah that’s the reason Tyrone it was it was not having the confidence necessary to do it myself or not having serviceability.

Yeah it’s really interesting that you said that.

And that’s why I sort of delved into a little bit more to understand how that process works so overall it was basically trying to help your servicing and also because you had the deposit to get a good deal through the am. Yes through the bank to be able to continue to purchase more properties. So it helped you sort of leverage to leapfrog and so forth like that but did you also think about as well because I’ve heard a lot of stories as well where people do joint ventures and sometimes they have then worked out the best they have. But how do you ensure that all the buddies that you did because you’ve had more than three or four of these properties that you’ve done deals with to make sure that things go smoothly. Did you have any means of legally in place or was it just a click to make sure that things grew the way they were because it is you’re committing to like you know marriage for each one of these properties.

“I don’t want to have to work all my life and I like the idea of passive income and being able to have people pay me to live in my property so that I don’t have to go and do a job that I don’t necessarily want to work for.”
– Rodney Holder

I know it’s crazy isn’t it? Look the answer is that I’m very lucky to have very good mates and the first guy that I invested with we were pretty tight as indeed we had a good friendship so no’s answer your question there was no there’s nothing legal drawn up there was just a handshake deal. A lot of people said I was crazy and you know you hear all the horror stories of things going wrong but I think I just invested with buddies that I trusted I really trusted that they were like my brothers and me and again I know they can still go wrong but I guess I’m a bit of a risk-taker and I thought to myself What’s the worst that can happen is this if this relationship turns to absolute crap then you know we’ll sell the property and we’ll go our separate ways. But again luckily for me the first guy I bought two properties with. We parted ways when he bought me out and I was happy with the amount of money that I got which enabled me to go and invest more and my other buddy who I went to high school with we’re still investing together now and we still have properties together and it’s worked a treat. It’s just good and we’re looking to actually our future investments between my buddy myself and my partner. So there’s actually three of us so we’re like a threesome going online going and going to gives us more serviceability and we’re able to pull out the deposits from the properties that we have. So.

Yeah. So structurally you’d be just putting your personal names down on the properties or worse.

Yeah, tenants in common 50/50. You know what they have been yeah.

And have you ever thought about structuring it slightly differently now I’m going sort of into more detail? Have you ever thought about structuring different like asset classes each company trust and stuff like that or has?

Yeah I’ve had people talk to me about it and the last advice I’ve got was to discontinue because we’re all still working we’re all still paying tax. We don’t have high-risk jobs where you know there’s a low chance of being sued.

Yes. So we’re just doing it in our own names in the future properties. Then perhaps we’ll look at doing something in a trust or a company structure. But as for now, that’s just N.R.A.

As we can see, Holder’s typical investment strategy is Joint Ventures and Buy and Hold approaches.

Obviously you know read a few books and I went to a few courses and I worked for a few people that were private property strategists and I figured you know what I’d buy and hold or something that I really was attracted to and I had to sell my units to my buddy I was really regretting having to do that but he really wanted to do it he was really saying I really really really want you to you know to buy you out.

So I thought well when I get that money I’ve got to make sure I replace this property with another property. But yeah to answer your questions I ran the strategy for me has been buying and hold because I just know that when you sell a property you’re basically selling all of your future capital growth with that. So and I learned from a couple of guys that I worked for up here that you know the sort of mentored me on the fact that you know they were so they going past properties they sold you know 10 15 years ago and thinking they were pretty smart making that capital that capital gain back then. And so yeah I don’t want to do that. I want to try and keep on everything I can like. Like when you play Monopoly and you don’t want to you go on a side you want to buy and keep it all build and hopefully build a hotel on top that’s just the one house. Having said that I have recently been thinking about selling one or two properties but only to leverage into more bluechip style properties. So I’m not saying I’m against it but up until now yes it’s certainly been a buy hold.

However, he still makes sure to add value himself through renovations or development.

Pretty much every house I’ve bought has been a house that I was somehow able to add value to through renovations and development Absolutely. So and again up here in Queensland it’s there’s a lot of homes that are you know upstairs-downstairs kind of thing where you can you know you can build it underneath and you can add another couple of bedrooms and another living area and another bathroom and make that living. And so I’ve always been attracted to the dual living not only because I’m investing with my buddy but most of the houses that I bought I’ve also lived in. So we were kind of renovating it as we lived there before we moved on to the next one. So we were getting in each other’s way because we had a separate living spaces and then when we go to rent them out they attract a higher rental as well so yeah it’s a small island.

Living in his investment properties while renovating and before renting them has given Holder a unique perspective to be able to add value in various ways.

Like I said we would purchase these properties thinking okay well what could we do here if we put a wall across there we could build a kitchenette down there and you could live there and you know we could turn you know this deep space and we could add another bedroom to that. That’s been a really good strategy doing that on a couple so you turn us you know a three-bedroom house and two or four-bedroom house which actually in my experience pushes the value up higher gives you a higher valuation.

So pretty much the strategy has been buy renovated. Give it a few months or so. Re-evaluate draw the equity out and then go again to purchase either one and you’ve been doing that in conjunction with some really close buddies who you trust and have lived with as well and that’s how you’ve been building a portfolio up to what you said you had nine how many do you have currently now at them at the moment.

So I’ve got six next year.

And in those six when I sort of ask you know what’s it worth at the moment and also what kind of income-generating out of it.

Yes that’s a good question. It’s just looking at it at the moment it’s probably worse probably just shy of 3 million. And in terms of the income, they’re all either neutral or positive cash flow now.

Like many, Holder is using his property investments to plan for his retirement.

I’m kind of relying on it I suppose. I mean I do have some super.

It’s not anything to sort of you know celebrate or anything but I do think that property where I am now I don’t think I’ll ever be sort of multi multi-millionaire rich or anything but I think I’ll always be comfortable. I think that the properties I’ve got have I’ve got a long way to go in terms of the locations that they’re in a good sort of family working class middle class suburbs. There’s always going to be a demand for the rent for them.

You know I was reading an article yesterday about Australia’s population growth and it continues to boom and the demand for property for the future I can’t see it going backward.

Yes I mean I just want to keep continue going and I suppose what I really would like to do now is to because a lot of my property accumulation was sort of happening in the background while I was doing my music career and what I’d like to do now is to focus on a bit more and maybe be a bit more aggressive with the acquisitions of it and then see what I can do. But of course, the Banking Royal Commission and the federal coming election has put the brakes on so see our fans out.

Yeah. My. Do you foresee yourself may be going to something a little bit more slightly bit different from saying buy and hold into maybe developing properties like buying the block and being seen as a potential to subdivide and turn it into multiple townhouses or whatever it is like to rent potential?

Yeah definitely. I mean if I had my problem always been Tyrone is that my ideas have been bigger than my bank balance. So if I could find that deal if I could fund that deal I would definitely jump in and have a crack at that and in fact I would love to own and I think one day I will ensure I will it’s just a matter of where and when.

As we mentioned before, Holder got into property investment with the benefits of lifestyle and retirement in mind. He explains the ‘why’ behind his decision to invest.

Given the fact that I’m really lazy and I don’t want to have to work all my life and I like the idea of passive income and being able to have people pay me to live in my property so that I don’t have to go and do a job that I don’t necessarily want to work for. So I’ve got the choice that if I want to go and work I can verify at some stage decide that you know what I want to take today off and just do whatever I want to do. That’s the dream. So I guess that’s been my wife for doing this and being motivated by seeing the gains that I’ve already been able to achieve with my existing portfolio and you know.

That’s great and to be honest, I think you’re already living part of that dream as well.

To me, you get to know at this point in time enjoy time with the kids in school and in research more property. So I think you are nearly there. You know that’s the thing you’re working on towards now which is great.

Yeah it is and I really love it and I love everything to do with property I love you know I love painting if it’s me I would hate to pay someone else’s house. But when you’re painting your own house you know like that’s the smell of money isn’t it. The tidying up and I like getting in and destroying an old kitchen and the whole physical bit like playing the drums really really apart and then building a new kitchen and then seeing how good it looks and yeah I just really like you know I love being in the garden doing the landscaping. I like taking you to know something that is is an ugly duckling and turning it into something that is much much nicer and attracts a much higher rent and gives you a better capital.

Having bought his first property at almost 30, Holder describes what he thinks held him back from purchasing any earlier.

It was probably just my immaturity. I was a young guy playing the drums in a heavy metal band I just never even thought about buying a house because I always thought that was something the grown-up people do. And I wish I had had a different mindset because I would have loved to have bought property earlier than I did you know the cliche you wishes I’d bought more property or property sooner but I also know that you know I spent my entire 20s doing exactly what I wanted to do and I had no restraints any financial tie-down no nothing I did exactly what I wanted to do so the time was right. So I’ve lost a little bit what you asked me.

As he approached 30 years of age, something changed in his mindset that allowed him to start this journey.

I think as my 30th birthday approached I just had this little voice in the head gasket will 30s like you’re not really a kid anymore you’re still young but you’re not a kid and so that’s where I decide like an instinctive little boy saying it’s probably time to start collecting assets. I didn’t understand shares and I knew I wanted to live in a house and then by live by living in that house and then that actually growing my wealth so quickly through luck and then buying at the right time and the right property I thought yeah this is the journey for me you know along with you know reading books like Jan summers and all that kind of thing. It just attracted me very much.

Still does she really love it.

On the topic of books, Holder shares other books and resources that helped him along the way.

I’ve read that I’ve really liked and I go back and read them but you chance Sommers was the person that started me on my journey no doubt. I’m reading again right now a really old book about real estate mistakes by Neil Jenman. And he’s an interesting character with his soul Jenman system. And if you know the Jenman system of real estate.

But now that’s a good book. I’m enjoying that. And what else just looking over at my library here.

Peter Spann do you know. Peter Spann.

Yeah yeah, Peter Spann.

Yeah, I went to a property seminar and spoke to Peter Spann and he was he really inspired me I know that I’m not sure he’s in part and I think it’s what it was. But certainly, he’s. He spoke about building property portfolios. It was really interesting. More recently listening to your podcast I got on to John L. Fitzgerald. I liked his book so I did listen to that and that was a direct result of listening to him on property investor involvement. But yeah you know your guess is that you have Tyronne. They inspire me I listen to your podcast like all the time. I love it. So it’s quite surreal that you were talking to me about this.

Thank you. And I love sharing stories like yours because it is the everyday investor and there’s no perfect or great there. I think it’s just a matter of inspiring everyone to learn from each other when not we’ve got a multi-billion dollar portfolio to us who are just in a building a portfolio that we want to use for retirement for future you know for our kids and so forth. So I think that’s the beauty about this podcast is that we can share online knowledge and come to it as community and help each other out as well.

No absolutely. I can genuinely say I I’ve been inspired by your podcast and I’ve certainly learned stuff and had things to think about as a direct result of listening to the great guess you’ve had on the show.

Holder reflects on the best advice he’s ever received, despite the fact it wasn’t given directly to him.

That’s a great question and you know I didn’t even receive it I’ll tell you a story when I first bought my first property in Canberra and I was thinking about moving to Brisbane. I did actually think about selling that property and taking the money and moving up to Brisbane was a big pile of cash in my pocket and I was in Melbourne I think I might have been touring and I was sitting at a fancy restaurant next to me there was a businessman and I had no idea who this businessman was but he was talking to a woman about property and I just started eavesdropping and listening to this guy and he was giving her advice and I don’t know who he was but he was that he was coming down with a very authoritarian voice and giving this woman all this advice and I heard him tell her never ever sell your property. You always keep the property don’t sell it refinance it and use that to leverage into other property.

And I saw that as like a sign from the universe and I thought right that’s what I’m going to do because I had actually people saying yeah just sell your property take the money you’ve made all is profit and it certainly serves me very well so I would say the best advice I’ve ever heard was not to sell but I know people listening to this will say well you know sometimes you’ve got to sell and like I told you I would consider selling but I would only consider selling if I knew it was going to leverage me up to an even better property.

So that’s so true and that’s great advice. I mean I totally resonate with that because you know as you said no one knows what kind of capital growth you’re going to have but if you hold onto that property long enough for the rest of generations it will be in a pass that on. And that’s the beauty of property investing as well.

That’s right and properties are so hard to get at least they have been for me you know you have to sort of struggle to get them and so when they’re when they’ve got your name all over them and they’re yours. Like you said. No one knows for sure. But I would wager that you know when my son who is five now and he’s 25 my portfolio is going to be worth a lot more than it is.

He believes a personal habit that has contributed to his success include his attitude.

Yeah, that is easy. This tenacity. I’m like a pit bull with a bone when I set my mind to something. And you’ve just got to convince yourself through good times bad times hard times that you know if this is really what you want then you just absolutely have to go for it. And I think that learned I learned that you know doing the band with everyone saying oh you’re a dreamer and that’s never going to happen. And then I heard people say the same things when I went to buy my second third fourth fifth property so tenacity is the one for me.

If Holder was able to meet himself 10 years ago, he’d have this to say:

That’s a good question because 10 years ago I probably would have nothing very insightful other than I probably would say in regard to what we’re talking about. Get off your bike and buy similar property and be probably a little bit more aggressive with it.

In the next five years, he looks forward to learning more about the industry and growing his portfolio.

I’m excited about learning more because that’s something that I’m really going through now I’m really immersing myself in everything I can podcast YouTube channels books online courses mentors Meetup groups. I’m looking forward to buying more quality property perhaps some more cashflow property most of my properties I purchased and were initially negatively geared and yet just doing it at a safe pace so that I don’t sort you know I don’t want to lose everything that would be really really bad. But at the same time pushing myself out of my comfort zone to some degree is to continue just trying to slowly but surely build the empire.

In regards to luck versus skill as playing the biggest part in his success, again Holder believes in attitude above all else.

Look I’m the first to admit I’m not very skillful and I’m not very necessarily sever your life or property savvy smart or anything like that. But look I’ve educated myself too to a point where I know where my sort of compass is where I need to head towards and that backed with hard work. And like I said before tenacity I think has been what has enabled me to have such good luck. You know I really do think that luck is merely opportunity meeting preparedness and you know by working hard and working out what you actually have to do to take that next step and working towards that and setting those goals. Hopefully, eventually, something will come round that is going to pick you up and take you to that next level and it’s what’s always up to me like in my music and also in my property. So I don’t see why that would change in the future.

If you’re interested in reaching out to Rodney Holder, here’s the best way to do so.

At this stage, it’s probably the best go and checks out my website which is music business fax a CPS dot com like Yutaro and I’ve done a hell of a lot of interviews with some very successful musicians. I’m not really doing that podcast anymore. As I said to you I’m sort of trying to move more into the property space that anyone can email me Rodney. Music Business Fax dot com. And yeah I’d love to hear from people so it comes together.

This episode was produced by Ashlyne Ocampo with narrations and interviews conducted by Tyrone Shum.