Chatting to inspiring property investor and entrepreneur, Esme Chin, she describes how adversity helped form her path to becoming one of the most successful female property investors in Australia, with a diversified property portfolio worth $6 million!
Find out how she achieved big things through her constant thirst for learning, how she built a castle to handle drug addict tenants, why she prefers to outsource professionals to manage her properties and the secret to growing your portfolio from $10 million upwards!
My name is Esme Chin and I am a property entrepreneur. I've done speaking in Australia and overseas, I'm a coach and investor. While most investors did it as a couple, I did it on my own. So in 2009, I was the Best Newcomer with the Property Women Group where I was the runner up and in 2015, I was the second runner up for an ILoveRealEstate competition with the knowledge group. And for the Property Investor of the Year 2015, I was the runner up for Your Investment Property magazine, so I have a portfolio worth about $6 million that spans six states - so NSW, Victoria, WA, SA, Tasmania and I just went into QLD; so currently I have about 21 properties and two of them are in US.
Being able to sustain her lifestyle with her current portfolio, she has also been able to take a year off to focus purely on learning.
What I do is that in a month, I will go to a lot of seminars and I read a lot. I read non-stop! I just keep the momentum going - even if I was not investing in that particular year, I would still be going to seminars and learning. It’s a continuous learning for me because the market changes all the time and there's always new techniques coming in.
Growing up in a little town in Malaysia called Ipoh, Chin inherited her family’s entrepreneurial mindset.
Originally I am from Malaysia and I came to Australia at age 14 and went to boarding school. I did have successful relatives who dealt in property back home, so it was always at the back of my mind. I had this really entrepreneurial spirit and I was so absorbed in building retail businesses that I couldn't see the trees from the forest. I should’ve asked myself what works in Australia.
One thing about Malaysia is that when I was a kid, I used to study about where is the tallest building in the world and after they built the twin towers, it's quite amazing I mean like from a small country, a little place, it can become a big thing. You just never know, it doesn't matter where you come from or whatever - you can achieve big things. So that's how I see it.
After migrating to Australia with her parents, she joined a boarding school. From there she continued her education at university before becoming a business owner.
I did a Bachelor of Arts course at uni after that and I stayed on here, opening businesses. Like I said I was entrepreneurial, I was very much absorbed in my business for the early part of my life. When I was at uni I was just working in sales and then after that you know, you see other people's businesses and they learn from that and then open your own. I was very ambitious at the time.
That's great. What kind of business do you run when you first finish uni.
I had a fashion accessory shop for nearly ten years and then I wanted to change and go into real estate as a real estate agent, but I didn’t like that because I didn't realise that you have to do listing. So I came out of that and then I went and bought a coffee shop in the eastern suburbs. It was very good, I mean everything was fine, it was doing well. The shopping centre owner used to come everyday for a cup of coffee and a sandwich so it must’ve been OK. But one day he died and then his wife took over the shopping centre - I don't know why but she just didn't like me, so she decided not to renew my lease and gave me two weeks to leave. I was devastated and I had the bankers give me a month. I was so shocked I mean I bought this business for about $240,000, it was supposed to be my baby and was supposed to last me till retirement. When you have your own businesses you have very little in super, so this was supposed to be my super.
So I was forced to finally sell the business and on the day of takeover exchange, I just found out that the buyer was the owner downstairs, he was a competitor and they were causing the company to buy it. So I don't know, maybe him and the landlord did something funny.
After owning the cafe for about four years, Chin suffered another personal blow which eventually led her to a new path in property.
Not long after that, my husband actually went back to Malaysia to see his parents and then one month became two months, became three months and then one day I switched on the computer and these big words said across the screen, ‘Goodbye.’ So I realised I was being dumped by email.
So basically I find myself, a middle-aged woman, divorced. I think like a lot of other people, you look at your bank account and it's almost empty; I had no super. And I reckon a lot of women when they hit 40 realise, ‘Oh my God, where’s all my money gone?’ So I was really lost and I just went from one seminar to the next - I don't know I was doing, I don't know what I was looking for. Until one day, I went to this Hans Jacobi seminar and he told us about his student, who bought about 18 properties in four months.
So I was quite blown away, during the break I actually got ahold of him and said, ‘Are you sure that he bought 18 properties?’’ and he said, ‘Yes.’ So that really kick started my journey in property investing. I've read too many books and so many things, but none of it really got me - but that really did. So that was the beginning of my property journey.
A self-confessed seminar junkie, Chin is always learning and researching more about property.
I've seen a lot of seminars. So I get different points of view, like Hans Jacoby’s positive cash flow and I'm also with another group called Property Women, so I'm really grateful to stand on the shoulders of giants and I have many mentors, I spend a lot of time attending seminars.
It’s interesting, because when I went to New Zealand I came back in October. I was the keynote speaker for the Property Investment Federation in New Zealand and they were telling me that in 25 years, they had never had a woman speaker. And because this time they were holding the PR and all the presidents there were all women in that executive committee and they decided for once they're going to have a women speaker, so they got me there. So I'm so happy and so proud to be the women's speaker in that particular place. I wish we had something like that in Australia, we should have a property investment federation or something like that!
Chin started investing into property around 2008, after some previous attempts at investing in the stock market.
I had to ask myself what works in Australia and I realised that the rich people had one really good cash cow as their business, not unlike what financial brokers tell you, like how to diversify. But the really rich people just focus on one business and once they do it really well, that when it becomes a cash cow. Only then will they ever diversify into their second and third. So I had to find my way to find my cash cow - I had to ask myself what works in Australia? For most people it’s the stock market, for me it was the shop market because during the GFC everything was halved and really, I'm not a Warren Buffett. Like during the year 2000, I put money into the share market before the crash and then I did it again just before the GFC hit. So basically we were seeing it coming and running the other way. For me, will I ever invest in the stock market again? Maybe but because I'm not great at it, you really have to go with your strengths and your luck. So unless there's another GFC, I won't go in there anymore.
Chin shares her previous experiences with running a business as well.
You have to ask yourself, is it a business or is it busy-ness, creating more busy-ness for yourself. Everything is very tough in Australia when it comes to business. Why? Because there’s high rents, high wages, high overhead and there's really no relief. It's not like East Asia where maybe you have lower wages, maybe have lower rent, at least that gives you some sort of relief. But in Australia if you want to be good in business, you've got to excel in every aspect. Like for example when I had a fashion accessory shop, I had to be good at being a buyer, I had to have very good taste otherwise nobody would buy my things, I had to be a good teacher. Just because you're a top sales person doesn’t mean you’ll be good at opening a shop, just because you're good at cooking doesn't mean you’ll be a top chef, you don't go and open a restaurant. I had to teach my staff not to become me. I needed to be really good at selling and I had to be good at marketing, I had to be good at display and I had to make sure that my staff get paid, etc. There’s so many aspects to a business in Australia - you want to open a business, you have to be number one or number two, you cannot be number three. In other words, if you have a coffee shop you have to be either Starbucks or Gloria Jeans, it’s very hard to be the number three player.
This is the power of property for her, as well as being able to leverage and turn $400,000 into $1 million.
We can leverage it, that’s the other good thing about property. For example, you have $100,000, if you want to go into shares the bank will lend you another $100,000. So basically you got $200,000 to play with but if you bought a property for $400,000 the bank potentially will lend you $1 million. You have a lot more control. And coming back to Ross, the building was actually in Indonesia and in Indonesia there's a lot of traffic jams - you go from that building to the airport, it’ll take you four hours. So by building a helipad there he just increased the price of the building because the CEOs can take a helipad straight to the airport. So you know, it's the things like that that I like about property, the things you can do with it.
As a property investor, Chin herself has enlisted the help of an enthusiastic person to manage her properties as well.
I would describe myself as maybe a lazy, hands off investor, almost an armchair investor - I don't like to dirty my hands. I like to work on my business, but not in my business, I outsource everything. I've used leverage a lot, I have never lifted a tool in my life. I found a carpenter who would drive around Australia and do it for me, so he's like a one man band and he does everything, from tiling to waterproofing. And things he can't do like plumbing and electrical, he organises all this to fit in with his schedule.
How did you find a handy man who would do this for you, day in and day out? That's amazing.
I was very lucky, very early in my investing and he's from a country town near my property manager. So basically it was a hassle and worry free. When it comes to renovating for me it was always hassle free, even when I was renovating in Sydney - and I had a different carpenter then - but I did one in Penrith and this guy saw my carpenter three times. I met him, I told him what I wanted done in each room, I went through each room with him. Then the second time, I brought the materials over to give to him so we can renovate the place and the third time, just checking to make sure that he completed the work and I handed him his cheque. So that's the sort of renovation, basically I try to be as hands off as possible, I use a property manager, I don’t manage my properties myself and it's tax deductible anyway the fee for them. I believe in hiring experts rather than doing things for myself and I try to get the best in the field.
One of the worst investing moments in her journey was when she bought in a particularly troubled, regional area.
When I first started I did buy a lot of places in regional areas. I have to say if you ask me about investing in country areas now, I would be very careful simply because things have changed because of ice and methamphetamines. You have to careful because basically one of the times I invested actually became worse, it was plagued by ice. If it was untenanted, people were smashing the windows out and it was just an absolute nightmare. And sometimes the tenant was an addict, inside punching holes in walls and it was such a nightmare that even my property manager quit.
I had to think of what to do next, because in a small town there’s only like four property managers and real estate agents. So I had to find another property manager elsewhere to do it for a while, until I could find one of the local ones to handle it. As a property investment, how do you deal with a place like that? You either sell it, but the price was not good so I couldn't sell it. So I had to think of what to do. So one of the ways I could deal with it would probably be to put Crimsafe on all the windows and put alarms in and lights that turn on at night. You have to do all of that and then fence up the place.
It sounds like you set up a castle in order to protect this place!
So you are always thinking outside the square because things are just going to hit you, you always get hit as is a property investor. Like I have friends that I bump into and see it and it’s like, ‘Oh my God, you should know, you have so much problems and my property manager rang for these repairs and those repairs.’ And I have to remind them, he works really hard and is always busy, he’s never around he only goes interstate. So I have to remind him that property investing is a business and business comes with problems. You have to deal with it, but at the end of the day you work so hard for your boss for what? I mean you line his pocket and not yours. If you do property investment, at the end of the day that's yours - those properties are yours and you them hold to pass down to your children and grandchildren. But if you work like a dog and never have time for your property investments, at the end of the day it’s not yours. You get your wage and it's good that you work hard for your boss, but your boss is the one benefiting, so you’ve really got to get your priorities right in life.
An important a-ha moment for Chin came at a seminar, where she discovered the three most important elements needed to grow her portfolio.
Once I went to a seminar and I did ask one of the mentors who I looked up to and said, ‘It's probably possible for most people that if they really put their mind to it, to build up a portfolio of $10 million dollars. How do you go from say $10 to $20 to $30 to $50 to $100 to $200 million?’ What he said to me was that there are three things. One is structure, two he says you must raise your thinking, meaning that for example if you own a newsagency, all you can see is the space of a newsagent - and a newsagency might cost $100,000 to buy it. So all you can see is all those businesses under $100,000. But say for example Richard Branson who would definitely be playing in a very different type of space, correct? He would not be looking at $100,000 type of business, he’d be looking out for all those things around about millions and millions. So that was really an a-ha moment for me.
And the third thing he said was that you must do joint ventures things and, to be honest with you, I was brought up as an only child so I always do very solo-based types of thing. So I had to do joint ventures, but probably not enough and not in the biggest deals. You've got to pick your joint venture partners very carefully - Buffett said, ‘When you look for employees, you look for three things. One is intelligence, two is energy and the third is integrity.’ And he says that if a person does not have integrity, then the other two will kill you; so when I look for my joint venture partners I've got to make sure that they have integrity. He said that each person doesn't have integrity, then you hope that he's an idiot. For whatever, whether it's your files or your business partner, I think this thing imparted by Buffett is very important to bear in mind.
I’m not Rupert Murdoch and had a six-figure salary professional. I realised that I needed one solid cash cow business and I had to find mine. So basically I came up with two very simple steps or goals. My goal was to just buy 50 positive cash flow properties and extract equity from it, then cookie cutter it.
One Of The Most Successful Female Property Investors In Australia Shares How To Find Your Cash Cow
So what held Chin back from initially investing in property?
I think when people talk about property investing they always talk about they don’t know how to start. I mean I was shaking when we went to my first property that I bought. I was very nervous, but I wrote down everything that I wanted to ask the agent. But what I did, really it’s a mindset game where it’s 80% mindset and 20% strategy. I came to the realisation of why from my teenage years, I already made up my mind to set my thermostat, I just wanted to be comfortable. Then I was really stuck at just being comfortable all my life. So my thermostat was not set on wanting to achieve a massive wealth dial. So I think a lot of people are in my situation. And I do have internal struggles, I mean I will tell you my dream is to one day have a mansion overlooking the harbour, the Harbour Bridge. But on the other hand I'm embarrassed to even tell you about it and that's not good, because I’m probably self-sabotaging.
To overcome this, she sets goals for herself and takes the time and effort to educate herself as much as possible.
I used to think all these things like people talk about visualisation, your dream vision board and all these things and I said, ‘Oh my goodness, what a load of rubbish!’ But the moment I actually sat down and wrote down my goals, something that I now do every year, that's when things started to just shine. Also by reading a lot and spending money on courses you know, hundreds of courses. Sometimes people say, ‘’Oh, what a waste of money,’ but you’ve got to ask yourself, how much do you want?
Say for example a person that probably makes $20 million, $50 million or $100 million, their education would be enormous like you see only really rich people like Richard Branson or Buffet, they read nonstop - 80% of Buffet's waking hours is spent reading; I went to a Mary Buffet seminar and that's what she said about her father-in-law. How much your financial education is is commensurate with how much you're going to make one day.
A large part of Chin’s education involves reading. One of the best sources of information she uses to condition her mindset with is an author named Bodo Schäfer.
One of my favourite people is Bodo Schäfer, I don’t know how many times I've read that. I think it's called The Road to Financial Success. It was a fantastic book, it teaches you how to see things. You have to have a big goal because there will always be obstacles in front of that big goal. So if your obstacle is bigger than your goal, then all you can see is the obstacles and not your goal. So if your goal is bigger than your obstacle, then you will keep going toward that goal, that's one of the things he teaches. The other thing is he teaches is every 10 years you work, you should take one year off - it’s a year when you learn things and that’s one of the things he promotes. Another thing he promotes is that you should always have a lot of cash in your pocket because rich people have a lot of cash in their pocket. You’ve got to feel comfortable with that because if you can't even feel comfortable with $1,000 in your pocket, you're never going to make $1 million. So that's one author that I really like.
And another one I like is Donald Trump. I mean no one likes him, but you know he does have very important things to say. I think being a property entrepreneur, you’ve got to have intuition as well. Like yes, we do look at logic but like sometimes it turns out to have more to do with your intuition. And he told us a story about this stockbroker of his that is really sharp and asked him, ‘Why are you so good?’ and she said when she was a kid, her brother was playing ping pong in the other room and you always know who is hitting the ball and who actually wins. And she put that sort of intuition into her stockbroking career, so basically she chooses and judges which goes up and down. I know all these things are very wishy washy, but you know it does work. Your success does work. Robert Kiyosaki is another good one too. He's got lots of really good ideas. Every book he writes is something different from the last one I read, it gives me different ideas.
The best advice she ever received came from a developer, who taught her the importance of having a good foundation.
This is from a developer who said that if only he kept one unit of every development he'd developed, he would have been so much richer. So this is an old man developer; I always remember that and that's why it's important and why I like to have a good foundation portfolio.
Over time, Chin has built an extensive portfolio containing over 20 properties worth a collective value of $6 million. So how has she done this?
I had to ask myself, ‘What is my cash cow?’ and you know I’m not Rupert Murdoch and a six figure salary professional. I realised that I needed one solid cash cow business and I had to find mine. So basically I came up with two very simple steps or goals. My goal was to just buy 50 positive cash flow properties and extract equity from it, then cookie cutter it. The GFC actually reminded me of Paul Getty who was probably one of the richest guys in the US and during the 1930s when the share market crashed, he just used whatever he could find whether it's paintings or houses or whatever. So I bought like 14 properties in one year. The second step was to landbank - buy houses with big pieces of land as much as I can afford and then maybe 20 years later, go back and subdivide granny flats, townhouses and see what I can do with that piece of land.
So I had just two goals, very simple and I just go chug along, chug along, chug along to accumulate all those properties. Then later on I tweaked that strategy. If you can just imagine two arms, on the left arm is like a keeper type of strategy, buy and hold; in other words I have a foundation portfolio. On my right arm, I wanted to do chunk deals. You know I'm not very comfortable with doing deals where I have to build you know. Basically I’d buy and hold and maybe flip sometimes, do some chunks deals. And by doing chunk deals, we have a chunk of money which I will bank to my left arm. So I have a chunk of money which is in my offset account, which helps me to lower debt and secondly acts as a buffer because in property investing there's always unexpected things happening all the time. There was one year when all my properties, including the city properties, the tenants just left in one year. Sometimes you know you just have bad luck. And there was another year whereby all my air cons - each one is $22,000 - all that just went bust. Thirdly, it allows me to accumulate deposit, so it allows me to buy new properties and to increase my asset base. So that was my strategy.
She has also added a third arm to her portfolio, which she believes will accelerate her wealth creation strategy.
In 2017, I added a development arm. I realised that the top 200 richest Australians are developers and not property investors. It’s quite interesting, this man - he was the richest man in 2016, he had $11 billion - he's a developer for one thing, but if you look at his portfolio it’s quite interesting. I think 30% is in rental, 30% is in service apartments and 40% is a development arm.
Within the next five years she also aims to continue learning about development, starting off by undertaking joint ventures to get a feel for the process.
I know there's a lot of pitfalls and after building a foundation portfolio, I don't want to lose it all. I know there's a lot of pitfalls and I know friends who have done it. So for me, I would be looking at joint venturing with experts in the field and learning from them, so the next five years will be very interesting because I'm going to learn all aspects of development, from subdivisions to selling pieces of land to building high rises. So probably I’ll try to do many projects, 10-20 projects, before I would even dare to go on and do it on my own.
I do go to courses and they make it sound like a breeze, but it's not a breeze. I know, because I'm currently in two projects and there are so many hiccups that people don't know of. And that's why it’s easy to get derailed, I mean like I do have a property with a close friend who is selling fruit in the street - and it's very sad. It's very real, like people always highlight the good things and everything and but they never show you the bad things.
In life you’ve got to take calculated risks, you don't just jump into the risk. I mean I go to all these seminars, know a lot of people and they put their hand up and say, ‘Oh I'm going to quit my job tomorrow! I want to be a property developer or property investor tomorrow!’ It's crazy, right? Before I even buy a property, I spent six months on realestate.com just looking and familiarising myself with all the prices. I really know by the time I actually got them, I already know everything about it, at least with the particular houses I'm interested in buying. For example if I wanted to buy a house with a granny flat I would know those places so well, know all the prices of those houses and granny flats until I'm actually ready to go up there.
For those who aspire to quit their nine to five job and become a property investor, Chin stresses the importance of keeping your job for the banks.
I know that most people don't like their job, I know that, but if you don't you’ve got to give yourself time. For example you’ve got to add this up - one, how old are you? If you're 40 or 50 years old, you’ll probably give yourself 10 to 15 years left of property investing life. So you’ve got to ask, ‘OK, within those 10 or 15 years how many properties do you think you can buy?’ You've got to give yourself a little time. Most off my friends are just chugging along, chugging along, I'm not sure what they are hoping for and you really don't want to end up in pensions. And there are other people out there that slam negative geared and I think they should think again. Because if the government does not support us to become a property investor, what is the alternative? The alternative would be that the government will have to give us pension, at the end of the day it's going to cost you even more money. Many people only help a property investor. They cut it last time and they had to put it back on, I don't know why people forgot that point. Australia has this tall poppy syndrome, they just choke that’s all I can say.
The most funny thing is that there's actually quite an equal world - everybody can be a property investor, they just don't want to make the effort. Do you know how many times I asked my friends to come along to some of the free seminars or whatever and my brother just said to me, ‘I’m just not interested’. I just think, ‘How can you not be interested, it's your future! Finance is your future, you should be interested.’ They put every other thing in front of their finance, they think taking their kids to this spot and that spot is more important rather than their finance. They just don't think and then at the end, when they hit 40 or 50, they panic and then they think, ‘Oh my God, it's too late now.’ And then he got the pension and not even enough to live on.
A personal habit which Chin attributes to her success in property investing is journaling.
I have four journals, which I recommend to my own students. One of them is just a personal journal and I always open it up by writing three things that I'm grateful for, then I would just write down what happened during the day - just everyday stuff, but it clarifies your thoughts so I think it's very important and also, one day you might become famous and that can be turned into a book right? And you forget things, every 10 years goes so fast and we forget, so writing things down is really good and it clarifies your thoughts on everything.
So that's one, the second journal I have is an ideas journal. For example I like to travel and when I do travel, if I have a good idea I will write it down. So that's the front of the journal - at the back of the journal I will write down all the cooks that I get that inspired me, whether it's from the Internet or from a book I read, from somebody, just anything. So that's my ideas journal and then I have another one, my success journal and in front of the book I write down all the things that are going successful in my life. Just little things like it's a degree that you’ve got, or you won award, or whatever it is. And at the back of the success journal I will write down even simple things when people say, ‘Oh, you look good today’, or ‘You are very smart,’ or whatever, I just write it down.
Another one of the books will be a realisation journal where I write down all the things whether it's my personal life, for example I suppose my failure in the marriage, I’ll write down all the things I learnt from them and also on the other side of the book I would write down what are all the problems that I had with property so that I will never do the same mistakes again. The idea behind the journals is to store up your confidence, it’s very important to do that. If you don't have that confidence it’s very hard to keep going and sometimes when you’re down and you look at your success journal, it keeps you going.
Looking back on all the things she wrote also helps her to smooth the bumps in the road when she is trying to reach her goals.
I find that sometimes in life you always have problems, whether it's personal or whether it's besmirching but by writing things down it smooths the kinks in your life. That's what the journals are good for, it gives you your quiet time where you can sit down, you write and it just makes your thoughts much clearer. And I don't go back as often as I should, but it's there and it's a reminder, like with the realisation journal you say in your mind, ‘Oh yeah, I've got to make sure that I don't repeat those mistakes.’ If I meet the same problem, this is what I will do. It’s just a reminder, it's really good for you.
If she were to meet her past self from ten years ago, what would she say?
I’d probably tell her to invest more in Sydney, in hindsight. But mostly I would have told her about what the other guy said about the three things - lifting the ceiling, doing more joint venture things. But you know why, I did go to this seminar and the guy was interesting; he made us look into our future successful self and ask that successful self, ‘What will impact your success, ten years into the future?’ So it was quite interesting and my future successful self said to me, ‘Never, ever, ever give up.’ And whenever there's an opportunity that comes your way, grab it and multiply that by ten. I have to say, I have taken that into account and it has shaped my journey.
So what is her view on the upcoming trends on where to invest?
If I was an investor right now and if I'm buying today, I'd be concentrating in Western Sydney. Despite what everybody says, you’ve sometimes gotta push away the noise, like a wave. Push it away and look at it for what it is. People are thinking like, ‘Oh, the average wage is $70,000, but then the properties are like $1.2 million, Sydney is too expensive.’ But they’re forgetting one thing, which is that Sydney has changed and when you think of London, Paris, New York, what's the next one? Sydney. Why? Because you’ve got all the icons in the world, it's no wonder we are in the top four. We've got the bridge, we’ve got the Opera House, they’re very iconic and it's a beautiful city and such a temperate city and also don't forget, the rest of the world like Hong Kong, New York, they mainly cannot afford a house.
So what makes you think we should be different? Like this is the place where everybody wants to come and don't forget people always think that we are part of England - we're not part of England, people always think it’s our mother country but we're not, we're actually located in Asia.
Accessibility to airports and surrounding infrastructure is another element that Chin believes you need to look out for when identifying where to buy.
Look at the Badgery Creek Airport, that's a real game changer and being an entrepreneur is someone that might be able to predict the future. I believe if you can, that would help you a lot. I have to say this, I'm not sure whether it would come true but I'm just thinking - the airport in Kingswood in the eastern suburbs? Maybe one day, if this were to become successful, the airport could extend across the entire Badgery Creek area. Why? Because if you think about it, Sydney is the only place where you can go to the airport within 15 to 20 minutes.
Look at the rest of the world like Hong Kong it takes an hour to get to the airport and that piece of land there, people would pay millions of dollars for it because it's next to the beach. It's such a valuable piece of land and it’s not being used well, not its highest and best value. I can tell you something in the Western Sydney, a lot of those places like Blacktown have gone up to about $700,000-$800,000, so they're looking at all their little neighbours next door like St Marys where once upon a time people never touched those type of places; but they look at all the neighbours and they look and they’re selling for $480,000, $500,000, so they go over there to buy. And they build granny flats there to make sure that they have positive cash flow. If I have one word of advice for the listeners today it would be if I was to go to buy today, I would probably buy one for capital growth and one for cash flow, because I cannot ignore the capital growth.
If you would like to connect with Chin and learn more about her strategy and the mindset behind it, you can do so via email.
I do personal coaching as well, so if anyone wants to connect with me it’s on [email protected] The first five that actually connects with me, I will give them a book on property that I wrote and if there's any single women out there, I did write a book called How I Got Two Thousand Guys To Say Hi, I wrote that book as well.